KOSOVO/IRAQ

Kiss my grits. Every one of these opstinas is within the 'Federation of Bosnia-Herzegovina.' How about the population levels in those opstinas under the control of the racist Srpska entity?

And most of the Serbs weren't 'expelled,' they mostly fled, when their local eqivalent of Arkan's Tigers failed to execute enough of their non-Serb neighbors to their satisfaction. Attempted genocide tends to tick off the victims, donchaknow.

Then show me what you mean, here is the list (<- click) of Hans Koschnik's homepage (go to "Bevölkerung") Happy Eastern.
Karadjordje

homeagain balkansvet wrote:
"And most of the Serbs weren't 'expelled,' they mostly fled, when their local eqivalent of Arkan's Tigers failed to execute enough of their non-Serb neighbors to their satisfaction. Attempted genocide tends to tick off the victims, donchaknow." Should someone sound different if he was hanging around almost the entire Bosnia Mission in cleansed Muslim (pure Muslim) towns -- hearing every day the evil, bad, muslimchildeating WorldSerbenTum in the Bosnian Muslim VOLKSEMPFÄNGER?
And one day leaving my pure Muslim town to visit the weird Serbian towns and to see tenthousands of angry but cleansed, of Mujas axes and bombs crippled, of whom their relatives were killed Serbs -- to point with the finger at them and to say - oohh --- look how angry and evil the Serb subhuman race is -- ooohh...
Even commissary of the German government Muslim supporter Hans Koschnik writes in this online documentary that these Serbian civilans (woman, children, old men) were ethnicaly cleansed ("Vertriebene") -- whole villages were depopulated -- by your "I-am-always-innocent" Bosnian Muslims and Croats. I could report abuse, but I think the others should see your grimace -- have the Fascist ever shown shame when they were extermianting 6,000,000 Jews in Europe or 1,200,000 Serbs in the Balkans?
Yes -- right answer.
Karadjordje

Hey, there, Djordjie, lighten up. It's not like anything you said is true or anything. We understand. Losing a war really sucks, particularly when you started it. If you need to cry on our shoulders, please, go ahead. That's what peacekeeping's all about.

homeagain balkansvet wrote:
"... particularly when you started it.""...AS SEEN FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE MAJORITY WORLD CHRONICLES
November 1997
BOSNIA Recently released secret documents reveal that in the first days of the war, Muslim paramilitary leaders murdered scores of Bosnian Serb civilians in Sarajevo."
http://www.newint.org/chronicle/CRONIC.HTM


But before...
"[...] The upbringing of the nation, and especially the mass media - the press, TV and film - should be in the hands of people whose Islamic moral and intellectual authority is undisputed. [...]"
Izetbegovic, Alija, "Islamska deklaracija", Sarajevo, 1990, p. 32.

"[...] Islamic order may be implemented only in countries where Muslims represent the majority of the population. Without this majority, the Islamic order is reduced to authority only (because the other element is lacking - the Islamic society), and may turn into violence. [...]"
Izetbegovic, Alija, "Islamska deklaracija", Sarajevo, 1990, p. 37.

"[...] the Islamic movement should and must start taking over the power as soon as it is morally and numerically strong enough to not only overthrow the existing non-Islamic, but also to build up a new Islamic authority. [...]"
Izetbegovic, Alija, "Islamska deklaracija", Sarajevo, 1990, p. 43.

"[...] The first and foremost of such conclusions is surely the one on the incompatibility of Islam and non- Islamic systems. There can be no peace or coexistence between the 'Islamic faith' and non- Islamic societies and political institutions. [...] Islam clearly excludes the right and possibility of activity of any strange ideology on its own turf. Therefore, there is no question of any laicistic principles, and the state should be an expression and should support the moral concepts of the religion. [...]"
Izetbegovic, Alija, "Islamska deklaracija", Sarajevo, 1990, p. 22.

In 1970 former Nazi collaborator Alija Izetbegovic wrote this book and in 1983 he was sentenced for 13 years by a Yugoslav Communist court for this.
In 1990 this Bosnian Muslim version of "Mein Kampf" was reprinted in Sarajevo.
Karadjordje

In 1990 this Bosnian Muslim version of "Mein Kampf" was reprinted in Sarajevo>>

Right. And in 1985 Biljana Plavsic published a PhD thesis that argued that Bosnian Muslims were not human beings, and genetically inferior to pure Serbs.

Who started the war? Hmmn. In May 1992, a bunch of gangsters called "Arkan's Tigers" invaded a town called Bijeljina in the northeast of the country and disappropriated the majority who lived in the town, driving them out. Question: What was the nationality of Arkan's Tigers? What was the nationality of the 'cleansed'? You only get one guess each. Ready, set, GO!

Give me a link with the original quotes.
Karadjordje

homeagain balkansvet wrote:
"... particularly when you started it." I just remember a funny happening in puppet Den Haag in 2002, but read yourself:
"15 Q [MILOSEVIC] In your public statements, or rather, in Tudjman's public
16 statements on Ban Jelacic Square on the 24th of May, 1992, said 'There
17 would have been no war had not Croatia wanted it. But we thought that it
18 was only by war that we could win the independence of Croatia. That's why
19 we had a policy of negotiations behind which we were setting up military
20 units. Had this not been so, we would not have reached our goal.' Is
21 this correct, Mr. Mesic?
22 A. [MESIC] I think that this could have been reported only by the Serbian
23 press, because it simply does not correspond to the truth. We know who
24 was in control of the press in Serbia. It was the accused, Slobodan
25 Milosevic."
Page 10638
http://emperor.vwh.net/icdsm/more/mesic-3.htm
And now listen to Holocaust revisionist Franjo Tudjman's speech on Ban Jelacic Square, Zagreb, on the 24th of May, 1992 (Serbo-Croatian):
http://m3.easyspace.com/domenico1/HR-BiH/franjo1.MPG
http://m3.easyspace.com/domenico1/HR-BiH/franjo2.MPG
http://m3.easyspace.com/domenico1/HR-BiH/franjo3.MPG
http://m3.easyspace.com/domenico1/HR-BiH/franjo4.MPG
Mr. "We-are-always-innocent" Mesic just lied (spelling: L-I-E-D) in front of puppet Den Haag in 2002 as a "witness" against Slobo.
Here I haven't even mentioned the ethnic cleanseeking of Serbs in Croatia ... or Kosovo and Metohija.
Karadjordje

I meant ethnic cleansing and not "cleanseeking", sorry...Karadjordje

You wouldn't believe me if I did.

homeagain balkansvet wrote:
"You wouldn't believe me if I did." Sorry, I don't have Arab money to pay some Muslim mortar guys, some "I lied just for the case" guys and some "neutral"-"yes I misled my viewers"-journalist and some IPI emotion and objective reasoning influence groups to repeat a big lie again and again and to present here glossy so by you called "war pornos".
I don't know why you are so concerned? If I do not post anymore, will anyone know anything about Gospic massacre, about Lora concentration camp, Ethnic cleanest countries in Europe?
Karadjordje

Ans looking back some posts I would say no answer IS an answer. Karadjordje

There's an error in the 1998 total for Livno. I was noticing that the Croat population was exactly the same as it was in 1991, while the others lost thousands yet the total population was about the same. The correct 1998 total for Livno should be 31,856 instead of the 39,400 they have.

No, no answer is no answer, particularly when responding to someone who obviously lives in another universe than the rest of us (probably the one where Spock wears a beard).

homeagain balkansvet wrote:
"No, no answer is no answer, particularly when responding to someone who obviously lives in another universe than the rest of us (probably the one where Spock wears a beard)." Bosnian Muslim would like that their crimes can be transferred to an another universe, but they committed it in Europe, Bosnia.
EXPULSION OF THE SERBS FROM BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA 1992-1995 (<- click)
Karadjordje

Bosnian Muslim would like that their crimes can be transferred to an another universe, but they committed it in Europe, Bosnia.>>

Serbs would like us to think that the Big Lie technique still works. Scream the same BS endlessly, and people begin to think that it's true.

Nice try.

homeagain balkansvet wrote:
"Serbs would like us to think that the Big Lie technique still works. Scream the same BS endlessly, and people begin to think that it's true. Nice try." Don't be afraid, all well documented.
Report G1: R E P O R T SUBMITTED TO THE COMMISSION OF EXPERTS ESTABLISHED PURSUANT TO SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTION 780, 1992 (<- click)
Report G2: R E P O R T SUBMITTED TO THE COMMISSION OF EXPERTS ESTABLISHED PURSUANT TO SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTION 780, 1993 (<- click)
Report G3: LETTER FROM THE CHARGE D'AFFAIRES A.I. OF THE PERMANENT MISSION OF YUGOSLAVIA TO THE UNITED NATIONS ADDRESSED TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL, 1994 (<- click)
Report G4: FOURTH REPORT OF THE GOVERNMENT OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF YUGOSLAVIA ON CRIMES COMMITTED AGAINST HUMANITY AND INTERNATIONAL LAW IN THE TERRITORY OF THE FORMER SFR OF YUGOSLAVIA, 1994 (<- click)

Report G5: FIFTH REPORT OF THE GOVERNMENT OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF YUGOSLAVIA ON WAR CRIMES COMMITTED IN THE TERITORY OF THE FORMER SFRY, 1995 (<- click)
Report G6: SIXTH REPORT OF THE GOVERNMENT OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF YUGOSLAVIA ON WAR CRIMES COMMITTED IN THE TERRITORY OF THE FORMER SFRY, 1995 (<- click)
Report P1: SERBIAN WOMEN AS VICTIMS OF WAR (Sanda Raskovic, MD, Ph.D. ) (<- click)
Report P2: DECAPITATION AS A MEANS OF GENOCIDE OVER THE SERBS IN THE FORMER BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA (Committee for the Collection of Data on Crimes Committed against Humanity and International Law) August 23,1995 (<- click)
Report P3: MEMORANDUM: On Ethnical Cleansing of and Genocide against the Serb People of Croatia and Krajina, September 1995 (<- click)
Report P4: Report of Bishop Lukijan of Slavonia (Bishop Lukijan of Slavonia ) May 1995 (<- click)
Report P5: TORTURE IN THE CAMPS FOR SERBS IN THE FORMER BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA- FORENSIC MEDICAL AND PSYCHIATRIC ASPECTS (Committee for the Collection of Data on Crimes Committed against Humanity and International Law )Belgrade; March 15, 1995 (<- click)
Karadjordje

http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosta/izvestaji/rep-1.html http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosta/izvestaji/rep-1.html
http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosta/izvestaji/rep-3.html
http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosta/izvestaji/rep-4.html
http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosta/izvestaji/rep-4.html
http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosta/izvestaji/rep-6.html
http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosta/izvestaji/rep-6.html
http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosta/izvestaji/rep-OnEtnicCleansing.html
http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosta/izvestaji/rep-lukijan.html
http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosta/izvestaji/rep-tortureforserbs.html
AAAAAAANT. Sorry, but thank you for playing FAZE THE NATION! What consolation prizes do we have for our contestants, Johnny? Well, for Djeordjie, we have a set of Ginzu knives, for use as needed in combat, and a year's supply of Rice-a-Roni, The San Francisco Treat! Plus, a copy of our home game!

Do you have problems with this official documents? Or do we have just false oil-less friends?

Have you read the documents just provided by http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu? (remark: non islamic side) Karadjordje

Balkans War Crime Defenses:

1. It's not my dog.
2. It didn't bite you.
3. Besides, you kicked it first.

(Return to #1 and repeat endlessly.)

Have you tried to discuss with a Fundamentalist?




Karadjordje

Have you tried to discuss with a Fundamentalist?Only the Serbian Fundamentalists here on FR.

Poohbah's Balkans posts contributions:

1. Make the same uninformed comment
2. Consider myself clever
3. Repeat ad nauseum

(Return to #1 and repeat endlessly.)

Kindly explain where my analysis is faulty.

Do you have problems with this official documents? Yes. How many times do I have to say "Serb propaganda" before it sinks in?
Every neutral document from the international community and the US Government place the blame squarely where it belongs, on the heads of Milosevic, Karadzic, Seselj and Mladic and their ganymedes in the Serb armies in their various guises (Bosnian Serb Army/VRS, Jugoslavian National Army, Serb paramilitaries like Arkan's Tigers, et al).

Have you tried to discuss with a Fundamentalist? Yes. All the time. Fundamentalists named Karadjordje, Joan, Destro, et al.

Ok ...pistols at dawn for you two.

plenty of blood on the hands for all in this argument in my view.

I guess the fact that I was a bit suspect about helping Muslims kill Christians and the fact that I don't find the Muslims guiltless...nor the Serbs or Croats either makes me a Serbian Fundie.

homeagain balkansvet wrote:
"Yes. How many times do I have to say "Serb propaganda" before it sinks in? Every neutral document from the international community and the US Government place the blame squarely where it belongs, ..."
Oooohh,aaah ALL EVIL SERBIAN Propaganda ... because US Government (killed over 2,000 Yugoslav civlians) isn't biased and isn't interested in such things (only when this Government of truthfulness says for examlple that 500,000 Albanians died in Kosovo):
Uproar over Film "Storm over Krajina" (Croatian article from aimpress) (<- click)
Uproar by Croats - why such a reaction Muja?
Karadjordje

I guess the fact that I was a bit suspect about helping Muslims kill Christians and the fact that I don't find the Muslims guiltless...nor the Serbs or Croats either makes me a Serbian Fundie. >>

Muslims weren't 'guiltless,' but the blather engendered by my opponent is designed to do everything he can to tear attention away from the massacre at Srebrenica, which made our intervention in Bosnia necessary (and which cost me a good solid three years of my life to help clean up).

Just ONCE I'd like to hear one of these guys say, "Yeah, we did it, we shouldna, whachagonnado?" That would be almost honest. Instead I get pictures of heads in buckets and (in djeordjie's case) endlessly recycled World War Two war pix.

homeagain balkansvet wrote:
"Yes. All the time. Fundamentalists named Karadjordje, Joan, Destro, et al." Nice hot pants on the photo, where did I get them?
From Osama Bin Laden?
Karadjordje

homeagain balkansvet wrote:
"Muslims weren't 'guiltless,' but the blather engendered by my opponent is designed to do everything he can to tear attention away from the massacre at Srebrenica, which made our intervention in Bosnia necessary (and which cost me a good solid three years of my life to help clean up)." What do you know from former multiethnic Yugolsalvia - before the war began, during the war -- nothing, just nothing, just ridiculous.
Pozdrav
Karadjordje

Oooohh,aaah ALL EVIL SERBIAN Propaganda ... because US Government (killed over 2,000 Yugoslav civlians) isn't biased and isn't interested in such things (only when this Government of truthfulness says for examlple that 500,000 Albanians died in Kosovo): Riiight. There aren't 500,000 Albanians IN Kosovo. The US Gov't never made such a claim. The true number is on the order of 5,000 at the hands of the Serb paramilitaries. Not much, you might think, but that's 1% of the Albanian population: equivalent of about, oh, 2.85 million here in the States.

kara- do not forget the muslim-run SILO concentration camp the Muslims denied existed.

homeagain balkansvet wrote:
"Riiight. There aren't 500,000 Albanians IN Kosovo. The US Gov't never made such a claim. The true number is on the order of 5,000 at the hands of the Serb paramilitaries. Not much, you might think, but that's 1% of the Albanian population: equivalent of about, oh, 2.85 million here in the States."

"Massacres or holocaust?

At the time the news that Western leaders claimed to have from Kosovo was indeed truly terrifying. As a senior administration official explained to The New York Times (4 April), 'There may be 50 Srebrenicas' (or in other words 350,000 dead). On ABC television news (18 April) another official claimed that, 'Tens of thousands of young males may have been executed in Kosovo.' The next day the State Department announced that 500,000 Albanian Kosovars 'are missing and feared dead.'
These figures were promptly taken up by French television. Jean-Pierre Pernaut, for instance, mentioned '100,000 to 500,000 people who are thought to have been killed, but that is in the conditional' (TF1, 20 April). The following evening the same channel announced, 'According to Nato, 100,000 to 500,000 men are reported missing. It is feared that they have been executed by the Serbs ... Of course, we have yet to prove this accusation.' Radio was keen to join in as well. On France Inter the journalist accredited to Nato enthusiastically passed on reports according to which 'hundreds of boys are being used as live blood banks, thousands of others are digging graves or trenches and the women are being systematically raped' (20 April, 7 pm news).
In the articles penned by French intellectuals on the Nato side the indicative mood soon replaced the conditional. Antoine Garapon, a magistrate, secretary general of the Institute of Advanced Legal Studies, president of the Kosovo committee and member of the editorial staff of Esprit, wrote, 'We cannot put the thousand or so Serb victims on the same footing as the hundreds of thousands of Kosovars who have been massacred' (Télérama, 23 June). He was already one step behind the official line. Once the war had been won, Western estimates of Albanian dead dropped from six to five figure numbers. On 17 June the Foreign Office in London stated that '10,000 people had been killed in more than 100 massacres'. On 25 June Clinton confirmed the figure of 10,000 Kosovars killed by the Serbs (The Nation, 8 November). On 2 August, following his appointment as Special Representative of the United Nations Secretary General, Bernard Kouchner spoke of 11,000 Kosovars discovered in mass graves but the International Criminal Tribunal for former Yugoslavia (ICTY) in The Hague refuted the statement the same day. Even Le Monde diplomatique unwisely claimed in its August leader that 'half of the feared 10,000 victims have been exhumed.'"
Le Monde diplomatique, LESSONS OF WAR - Media and disinformation, March 2000
Karadjordje

You need to learn history and the meaning of Fundamentalism. Serb and Fundamentalism does not match as Terrorist and KLA, with Poohbah blessings does.

What do you know from former multiethnic Yugolsalvia - before the war began, during the war -- nothing, just nothing, just ridiculous.>>

Well, it wasn't my country. But it became my problem, willy nilly, when your heroes of Serbia stood outside a barn and massacred a thousand people at close range at Kravica and massacred 7000 other people for giggles.

Frankly, I don't give a rat's patootie about the former Yugoslavia; it was a bastard state cobbled together at gunpoint by a genocidal maniac who thought that he could paper over War Two with a plaster mixed in the blood of murdered 'enemies of the state.' In an ideal world Tito would have stepped on a land mine and the pieces of Yugoslavia should have been allowed to go their own ways in 1945. But that's not the world we inherited.

Frankly I would have been perfectly happy to spend the last four years back here in the States with my wife and family and remaining blissfully unaware of anything about that two bit hell hole called Yugoslavia. BUT NOOOOOOO. You guys had to go berzerk and kill prisoners for no reason other than blood lust and hate, requiring a lot of people like ME to come and babysit your worthless butts.

You people, Serbs in particular, brought it on yourselves, both through your collaboration with the Nazis Milosevic and Karadzic, through your overeagerness to believe lies about people whose houses you wanted to rob in Bosnia and Croatia, but much deeper in time through your passive cooperation with the monster Tito. I have no sympathy for you in the least. (I don't have much more sympathy for Croatia, either. Bosnian Muslims I like at least because they REALIZE that they only exist because we were there, and had the courtesy to thank us.)

What do you know from former multiethnic Yugolsalvia - before the war began, during the war -- nothing, just nothing, just ridiculous.>>

Well, it wasn't my country. But it became my problem, willy nilly, when your heroes of Serbia stood outside a barn and massacred a thousand people at close range at Kravica and massacred 7000 other people for giggles.

Frankly, I don't give a rat's patootie about the former Yugoslavia; it was a bastard state cobbled together at gunpoint by a genocidal maniac who thought that he could paper over War Two with a plaster mixed in the blood of murdered 'enemies of the state.' In an ideal world Tito would have stepped on a land mine and the pieces of Yugoslavia should have been allowed to go their own ways in 1945. But that's not the world we inherited.

Frankly I would have been perfectly happy to spend the last four years back here in the States with my wife and family and remaining blissfully unaware of anything about that two bit hell hole called Yugoslavia. BUT NOOOOOOO. You guys had to go berzerk and kill prisoners for no reason other than blood lust and hate, requiring a lot of people like ME to come and babysit your worthless butts.

You people, Serbs in particular, brought it on yourselves, both through your collaboration with the Nazis Milosevic and Karadzic, through your overeagerness to believe lies about people whose houses you wanted to rob in Bosnia and Croatia, but much deeper in time through your passive cooperation with the monster Tito. I have no sympathy for you in the least. (I don't have much more sympathy for Croatia, either. Bosnian Muslims I like at least because they REALIZE that they only exist because we were there, and had the courtesy to thank us.)

homeagain balkansvet wrote:
"The true number is on the order of 5,000 at the hands of the Serb paramilitaries."16 Apr 2003

"More than 4,000 still missing four years after Kosovo conflict

Belgrade (dpa) - The United Nations administration in Kosovo (UNMIK) said Wednesday that so far 145 out of 4,000 bodies exhumed in the province since the end of the war have been identified, the private Beta news agency reported.
A total of 4,300 people have been reported missing since 1999, most of them ethnic Albanians, said chief of the UNMIK department for missing persons, Jose Pablo Baraibar.
The list was not yet fully 'consolidated' and UNMIK has been working on it with Belgrade, he said.
According to available data, 909 of the missing were non-Albanians, but the figure was expected to rise, as Serbs recently added another 350 names to it.
Barabair said no mass graves have been found in Kosovo, the site of a bloody conflict between Belgrade's security forces and ethnic Albanian guerrillas in 1998 and 1999, but that more individual burial sites were expected to be found.
The fighting was accompanied by a wave of terror by the security forces and outright expulsions of civilians which led to an exodus of refugees to Albania and Macedonia.
The conflict was ended after NATO bombed Slobodan Milosevic's regime into accepting an international peacekeeping presence in June 1999."
dpa bb bg
Copyright (c) dpa Deutsche Presse-Agentur GmbH
Karadjordje

homeagain balkansvet wrote:
"The US Gov't never made such a claim. The true number is on the order of 5,000 at the hands of the Serb paramilitaries." 2 lies in 2 sentences, and your face don't turn red.
Karadjordje

I'll accept your figure of 3000 Albanians. That drops it to the equivalent of oh, 2 million Americans by proportion.

What's remarkable was the numbers of people who *weren't* killed by Serb paramilitaries. Because we showed up and put them out of business.

My face don't turn red when I tell the truth.

homeagain balkansvet wrote:
"I'll accept your figure of 3000 Albanians. That drops it to the equivalent of oh, 2 million Americans by proportion.""[...] the US said that between 2,000 and 3,000 Iraqis had been killed in the three-hour incursion into the city on Saturday, by the 3rd Infantry Division and two squadrons of tanks."
The Independent, Baghdad braced for the assault, 07 April 2003 (<- click)
The U.S. Government kills as many as 3,000 people in 3 hours- rate of upto 1,000 people per hour. The U.S. Government killed more Iraqis in that 3 hours than Albanians killed by Serbs for the entire 2 years of the Kosovo war, right?

Karadjordje

Okay, djeorgie, let's expand your English vocabulary! - Let's go to www.dictionary.com. Look up the definitions of the following words: "Civilian" and "Military."

Also, while you're at it, the words "genocide" and "combat."

Not all battle deaths are equal. Some are worse than others.

homeagain balkansvet wrote:
"...hands of the Serb paramilitaries." Do you know the article "The Cruelest Cleansings" (<- click)
Ooooh, be careful, it's again a Serbian site...ooohh...
Karadjordje

homeagain balkansvet wrote:
"Okay, djeorgie, let's expand your English vocabulary! - Let's go to www.dictionary.com. Look up the definitions of the following words: "Civilian" and "Military."" 145 are identified, hm.
You would say, that they all were civilians?
Hm, all Albanien?
Karadjordje

homeagain balkansvet wrote:
"Not all battle deaths are equal. Some are worse than others." Oh, that you don't have to exlpain to me - 1,900 Muslim Fighters who slaughtered 1,200 Serbs are worse than these 1,200 Serb Civilians, I know.
Karadjordje